[Music] [Applause] on the afternoon on the 8th of november three months after the sterling murders a probe was planted inside radford police station as part of operation soul picked up a conversation between dc charles fletcher and jason groscock mr fletcher’s former boss at lymey’s closed door colin gunn was trying to find out what the police had on him mr fletcher explained to mr groskart the difficulties he would have in finding out about the murder inquiry and other operations against mr gunn because of the secrecy surrounding the investigation units it wouldn’t be common knowledge to anybody except those who knew they were going to get him said mr fletcher there’s those different squads murder teams who are looking into various things you’ve got stealth as well which is out on ox close lane and they’re like their own unit with their own dis ds’s and dc’s we just [ __ ] deal with the [ __ ] on the streets so as something like that it would be quite sophisticated it would be kept in-house with a specialized team bobby wouldn’t necessarily hear about it because he’s got no [ __ ] need to hear about it um and what stealth do they do a separate entity in the section of cid so we don’t know anything that they do unless we hear about it when we see them in custody or we go into the office for a cup of tea or something but stealth i mean stuff and those operations like that keep everything dead secret because they don’t like any [ __ ] to know so for me for me to hear that would be would be a very rare thing and it would be enough chance of me just wondering by and speaking to someone in that team but the chance of that are [ __ ] approaching zilch as mr fletcher pointed out for me to find anything i would have to ring lincoln and ed think who the [ __ ] are you you’d have to go through the right channels on the 25th of january at 5 22 pm another call was made by dc fletcher to mr groskop colin gunn was now worried that he was a wanted man their chat was deliberately vague as they tried to skirt around the subject of their call without saying anything too incriminating you know me of a mate he can’t work out why that bloke has said to him at the weekend that he’s definitely now wanted and it’s coming up that he isn’t right he was wondering whether or not like you know if the ncis the national criminal intelligence service and things like that are up would he not put it in the pnc as not to frighten them off yeah that’s always a possibility that’s a tactic yeah just leave it just leave it that’s a tactic it’s a tactic that you could do will you check them two out for me yeah the big fella colin gunn and uh baz dave barnett yeah and just give us a tinkle on um yeah i will do on the 4th of march 2005 at 1405 pm video surveillance picked up footage of dc fletcher putting pieces of paper into his pocket at radford police station he then made a phone call to jason grocer i’ve just done a few things nothing new on a darren peters and jamie neal there’s a couple of bits on uh and a few bits on the fella so i printed that off so right so what are you doing tomorrow what day is it tomorrow saturday hmm are you working we’re in the shop all day right i’ll pop in and come in come and say hello i’m working at eight to four alright and what’s that you’ve got one one on neil and the big lad and the big lads not he’s back on is he yeah there’s a few bits on there now nothing [ __ ] remarkable and peter’s a zero yeah yeah i suppose he is he’s just um the last one that was talked about um what was the last one you talked about to me oh there’s more there’s more there’s a couple on there sorry right okay then well that’s cool then that’s that’s brilliant then well yeah there is i think there’s one it’s on about him [ __ ] in a hospital or something and buggering off back to spain or something he what in hospital then they went to spain yeah i think that’s the one right okay operation salt had been underway for a year and dc fletcher’s computer at radford police station had now been cloned so that all the keystrokes used body officer on his keyboard could be replicated showing what he had written and the searches he had made or had attempted to make on the forces intelligence database by december 2003 operation salt log searches mr fletcher made on the police national computer for the names dean betten and later craig morin mr fletcher also searched for colin gunn’s name on a regular basis to see if it was coming up with anything on the marion bates murder investigation and on other shootings including the attempted murder of joan and john sterling in 2003. between december 2002 and september 2004 d.c fletcher searched for mr gun’s name on the computer 30 times he printed out sheets of intelligence at least 25 times between those dates in the wake of marvin bradshaw’s murder and the arrest of michael o’brien mr fletcher passed on information on the home of john and john sterling at south view road in carlton information provided by mr fletcher to colin gern included a report about a man who had gone to the police saying he had been threatened by mr gun over his domestic situation mr gunn had allegedly told the man you’re a dead man if anything happens to this woman another report given to mr gunn mentioned how he had threatened a police officer with i know where you live when he was being questioned mr fletcher also gathered intelligence on mr goon’s connection to a dark-colored bmw about houses he owned or was linked to and details to pubs police believed he had financial interest in there was a report about mr gunn smashing a man’s hand with a hammer after the man had lied to him mr fletcher was also able to tell mr gunn the extent of the police knowledge about security at mr goon’s own in revelstoke way roy’s power mr fletcher told him that officers were aware of cctv coverage in the house and that it was relayed to a utility room slowly but surely mr fletcher began compromising police investigations into members of the westwood cartel one prosecution against darren peters a racehorse owning associate of colin gunn involving a road rage incident in netherfield collapsed after mr fletcher gave up the name and address of a witness who was subsequently visited and threatened leading to him withdrawing his statement i want to know how the [ __ ] they got my address complain their witness one of colin gunn’s more psychopathic henchmen who seem more incapable of going out of his home for more than a few minutes without attacking someone assaulted a man on the estate in 2005. so severe was the beating that the man received that it was almost classed as an attempted murder he suffered broken arms and legs d.c fletcher carried out mot checks on the status of the investigation and the man was able to breathe a sigh of relief mr fletcher told mr groscott that no one would be charged unless they could get a statement off the victim the victim was saying nothing despite the enormous police pressures on the bestwood cartel that winter they continued to wreak mayhem it was though they were untouchable on the afternoon on the 18th of december a good man walked into the family run aspley pawnbrokers and aspie lane in search of a 34 year old lawrence atkin this man wearing a ballet clava just came into the shop with a shotgun and shot straight at my leg said mr atkin i fell to the floor in complete agony i don’t have any idea who may have done this in fact mr atkin knew who had ordered the shooting but was too scared to say he dare not even utter the name colin gunn the crime was to owe a small debt to mr gun and the shooting was a warning to settle it his father reg who ran the shop said they didn’t know their son would be able to walk again lawrence just said he was off when this bloke came into the shop with a double-barrelled sawn off shotgun he pointed it at his ankle and then there was just a bang it was all over in a few seconds he was a stocky chap and he had a bada clover and dark clothing mr atkin underwent seven and a half hours of surgery and two blood transfusions to save the lower half of his right leg the good man was john mcsally after accomplishing his mission he jumped into a white box or astra with two other men inside and drove off within a few days dc fletcher was passing on the details of the police investigation to mr gunn via the usual intermediary talion big mate not to worry he told jason groclock the bloke knows who did it but he’s not talking it was another vital tip off to mr gun mr fletcher was also compromising informants he gave away details on one file about a woman who mr gun had been with briefly and who said mr gunner told her he was involved in the shootings of john and joan sterling dc fletcher put mr gunn’s mind at rest texting mr groscott that there could never be a prosecution as the evidence was just purely circumstantial he passed on more information in january 2005 about a sickening assault involving the best wood cartel in the lizard lounge nightclub when a man had lost part of his ear mr fletcher was on holiday at the time but when texted that the big man needed to know about it went straight to radford police station and gathered all the intelligence on the attack he also made checks on behalf of mr goon about the assault on a man in a pub in nottingham in march 2005 and on a near fatal assault on another man carried out by one of his henchmen mr fletcher even falsified records in a road traffic accident to prevent the prosecution and two other members of the cartel who had been pulled over without insurance on one occasion mr fletcher’s own mistakes on the computer backfired when colin gunn’s girlfriend victoria garfur had received a parking ticket and mr gunn rang through to try and get mr fletcher to get it cancelled he went into the computer and punched in the name but misspelt it and came up with an entry for another woman who had a previous conviction for prostitution mr fletcher passed on the information to mr goon with a disastrous consequence mr gunn went absolutely ballistic and confronted victoria accusing her of being a [ __ ] said one officer then he gave her a severe beating victoria would remain loyal to colin despite numerous police attempts to turn her and described her man in relatively glowing terms to the nottingham evening post no one says colin has been an angel he sells a few bent cars and that sort of thing he’s being blamed but where’s the evidence the police just don’t like it but everyone around here likes it we’re not just scum like everyone makes out two things emerged from the probe into charles fletcher one was positive and the other was negative several officers were caught in the dragnet which had been set up to catch him one was a constable called phil power who worked in the vice section mr power had a passion for scooters and was friendly with javad rashid who worked at icon scooters which was owned by one of colin gunn’s lieutenants david barrow after mr fletcher came up with the false information about mr gunn’s girlfriend being involved in prostitution mr gunn had been increasingly obsessed with checking out the information he got mr barrett to ask mr rasheed to ask dc power about it because he worked in the voice and he would probably know in november 2004 dc pi received a text on his mobile phone from mr rasheed mr parr made the check and then went to the scooter shop to tell mr rashid about it mr barrett was there and mr gunn was waiting in a parked up bmw nearby unknown to dc park national crime squad officers had the shot under surveillance something that mr barrow later became aware of after being tipped off by someone within the police pc power had no idea mr gunn was the final recipient of the information and a promising career was ended as a result all for doing a favor for remain he admits he failed the highest standards set by the police force by doing the check but he was in no way linked to the criminal gang operated by mr gunn as dc fletcher had been i can’t deny i did something that was wrong but i was tarnished with the same brush as mr fletcher and there’s no way i’m a corrupt officer mr parr later said i did something that i shouldn’t have done but it was a favor for someone i thought it was a mate mr parr would be laid to jail for 12 months at birmingham crown court after pleading guilty to misconduct in a public office as he has pointed out he will have to come to terms with the shame of what he did but some pedophiles and violent offenders have received lesser jail terms his career was over and he lost much of any pension he could claim from an otherwise unblemished 10-year career a number of other officers were even more har dumbo in the fallout that came from the surveillance of mr fletcher detective constable john forley a highly respected officer worked at radford road police station near mr fletcher’s desk the probes that had been in place for mr fletcher caught him talking in colorful terms about some yadis who planned to murder an officer outside ox close lane police station mr forley explains what happened to him and another colleague who had been caught on the bugs chatting inappropriately on june the 21st 2005 the phone rang at my home charles fletcher had been arrested mr fletcher was a young trainee detective i’d worked with for several months he was brash overconfident i had a tendency to engage mouth before brain i saw it an hour or so later my colleagues and i sat and listened to a horror story we were told mr fletcher was a criminal in league with some of the most violent criminals in the city he was selling information to criminals who operated extortion rackets and ran class a drug ring we all knew them well we had all seen their handiwork odd stood at the foot of the bed at the queen’s medical center while a man who had most of his foot removed by a shotgun at point blank range refused to speak we knew as a punishment shooting for a death the chances of anyone talking to us were nil and so proved it through mr fletcher these people had access to everything about us where we lived where we socialize even when my daughter goes to school how safe were we he’d betrayed us that afternoon two of us were summoned to hq naively i imagine we were going to be offered support in help to coming to terms with these devastating revelations to my astonishment i was served with notices stating that i was to be subject to a disciplinary investigation for eight months our offices have been booked unconnected to any criminal investigation and out of hundreds of hours of recordings i have been overheard on four occasions making inappropriate and unprofessional comments more seriously and with tedious predictability the allegation of using racist language also appeared i’m the first to admit that the language in a cid office can be at best irreverent we’ve attended the post-mortems of gunshot victims cut hanged bodies down from coat hooks and sat across tables from pedophiles who have committed the worst crimes and had to pretend to be sympathetic mr gallow’s humor is and has always been necessary to remain stained but always in private to all intents and purposes my career ended at that moment i was placed on restricted duties i was to sit behind a desk and do nothing of value i was never to do any meaningful work again neither i nor none of my colleagues are racist or homophobic one of us is openly gay from that moment i was airbrushed from history it was as if my 30 years had never happened when one comes near the services obsession with racism an unblemished 29 year service counts for nothing i always thought that if i ever was faced with difficulties i would receive help and guidance wrong most senior officers were almost behind barricades if i went too close my despicable crimes by the way behind closed doors and in private were nasty remarks about firstly a jamaican who was trying to recruit a shooter to have one of us murdered outside oxclose lane police station as we left work and secondly about a woman who invented a rape allegation that led to two innocent students being incarcerated for hours i admit on both occasions it was quite likely i did make derogatory comments to refer to a group of people as jamaican pond life as i did could be considered rude the group i referred to as this were killers and drug dealers if i had said broxtow pond life or saint anne’s on life then it’s not a problem what utter nonsense i retired a year later but was connected with corruption and tainted with racism i always suspected but it took me almost 30 years to discover that this organization does not value any individual careers and reputations are ruined in a whim we were treated like a newly discovered coven of the klu klux klan mr fletcher’s legacy wasn’t only to destroy himself on a positive note the feather associated with the anti-corruption probe ended some unblemished careers the force tightened up their procedures for dealing with applications to join the police detective superintendent russ foster ensured future applications to work for nottinghamshire police were thoroughly vetted in the wake of mr fletcher’s probe in august 2007 ds foster announced that a six-month investigation had discovered that at least six people so-called clean skins working on behalf of organized crime gangs had applied for jobs in the force they were identified and groomed to infiltrate this force with the aim of providing intelligence to the city’s organized crime leaders he said there was nothing obvious on their applications to suggest who they were it was only after extensive work by me and my team that we identified their associates and their links with some of the biggest crime groups in nottingham on the 26th of january 2005 operation utah which had been investigating the best wood cartel’s drug dealing activities suffered a serious breach of security which sent shock waves through the team two detectives a constable and a sergeant from the national crime squad were taking tapes for examination to the forensic science service in birmingham it was a routine job but giving the sensitive nature of the material only a handful of people knew about it one part of the tapes had a police interview with colin gunn the other was recorded material from bugs which had been put in place by the utah team the detective’s jobs was to process the tapes and using voice recognition technology see if the voice matches on the way back from the job the two detectives decided to stop off at cruise and harbour’s pub in swarkestone derbyshire for a point they left all the material in the car along with their notebooks and other material relating to operation utah this material identified senior officers involved in the job including detective chief superintendent phil davis the head of nottinghamshire cid it also identified a house in besswood where police were listening in on conversations between members of the cartel and a building in epistome which was being used as the secret headquarters of starburst and utah the officers were in the pub less than an hour but in that short time the locks on their cars were sprung and all the material was stolen within two hours telephone books picked up a call from newark a young man was calling colin gern and was telling him what was on the material he had stolen mr gunn told him to destroy it the ramifications were huge once the theft was known security at epistome was stepped up with 24-hour patrols around the perimeter the house used for eave droppings eventually had to be brought by nottinghamshire police at a cost of more than one hundred thousand pounds and the people living in it had to be moved to a safe house and put up the witness protection then on the 10th of february police received an anonymous letter it said that there would be an attempt to assassinate two senior nottinghamshire police officers including dcs phil davis threats had already been made against detective superintendent ian waterfield then head of operation stealth and the chief constable himself steve green the information resulted in phil davis having to move out of his house while security was upgraded and the threat diminished it also led to a debriefing for senior officers on how to exit their homes if there was an intimate threat to their lives or their families two days after the threat was received john mcsally was arrested with five bullets in his pocket evidence suggested that mr mcsally was on his way to a job with a boiler suit in his car and a pair of wellington boots to this day there has never been any public acknowledgement of any detailed investigation into the theft of the confidential material by the serious organized crime agency soccer which later replaced the national crime squad or any other body the thief who has never been named was quietly dealt with in court in derby where he asked for 100 other offences mainly thefts and burglaries to be taken into consideration refused to release any information about him on the orders of its chief constable mick creedon saying the offender’s life could be at risk a senior nottinghamshire detective involved in operation utah said that when we heard about the material going missing it was like a jesus christ moment we thought what the hell are we dealing with here very few people knew what the car was carrying that day the fact that the theft took place in the car park of a pub in derbyshire the fact that someone from nottingham was the thief and had been in a pub 20 miles away the fact that the person knew colin gunn’s mobile number and the fact that colin gern was contacted within a couple of hours of the fair it was like wow you’ve got more chance of winning the lottery then of this being pure coincidence someone somewhere had told colin gunn that that vehicle contained important information and the vehicle was targeted as a result something was wrong and we passed on our grave concerns to the relevant people i’m extremely surprised that soccer say they didn’t even conduct an inquiry because the national crime squad was certainly aware of it and once soccer took over the national crime squads responsibilities it would have been passed over to them david gunn was arrested by nottinghamshire police involved in operation utah that february the bugs there placed in the head rest of his bmw had nailed him and he had been caught talking too loosely on the phone after a few drug shipments were intercepted mr gunn told his associates they’ve got another load hope it’s not a whole lot it’s just epoxy bust really they’re trying to take out all the little sergeants but they can’t get to us the colonels or the captains mr gunn was also caught talking to associates on the phone about where he could launder some of his money in south africa police moved in and arrested 41 year old right-hand man terry witts who had recently married a schoolteacher they also moved in on mr gunn and arrested him the pair along with their friend kevin warsaw were linked to a small shipment of more than 20 thousand pounds mr gunn had been watched seeing off a taxi carrying some of the drugs the best with cartel was even ripping off some of its own customers by re-cutting large amounts of vacuum-packed drugs and then resealing them as if the stuff had just come in in wholesale it was just another way to keep the profits high even if the customers were not going to get as high as they were led to believe but if there was any relief at their arrest of david gunn and the impending arrest of colin it will be blown away by the following month when a reporter was to personally experience how chief constable steve green handled the media the reporter had suggested an article for the sunday telegraph on the troubles facing nottinghamshire police after a number of officers from both the front line and senior level approached him to voice their concerns about the state of the force many claimed it was on the brink of collapse the reporter had also been told some of the details of operation starbursts and he knew that there was an independent police complaints commission ipcc investigation underway into the shooting of the sterlings indicating there had been serious failings on the part of the force nottinghamshire police were also refusing to give investigators any access to material from the bugging of the bestwood cartel citing legal complications over the ownership of the material after raising the issue with daniel fargo who worked as a reporter at the sunday telegraph he decided that he would first try to contact the person that they assumed was the head of operation starburst when they approached detective chief superintendent phil davis he initially agreed to me and have a chat about in the following week but then mr davis said he had spoken to his boss steve green about their approach and had told him that the reporters seemed very well briefed about the challenges facing the force he said mr greene had decided he would speak to the reporters if they approached him one of the reporters then rang mr green told him what we knew about operation starbursts and said that they were considering running a story about the issues being investigated by the ipcc mr green was clearly unhappy about this claiming that they might compromise covert operations a dubious claim to make when they were approaching the subject in response to a manner and would be under legal constraints about what they could print anyway on friday the 10th of march 2005 mr green agreed to an interview over the phone but operation starburst was off the agenda daniel foggo is an experienced reporter and someone who does not pull any punches so he began to question the chief constable about various problems facing the force based on what the reporters knew they were both staggered as he began to admit the failings and pressure the force was under the interview was completed before the end of friday afternoon and the tape was recorded when the story emerged on sunday morning neither reporter realized the impact it would have the story made the front page of the lead sunday telegraph on the 13th of march police chief we cannot cope with violent crime one of britain’s most senior police officers has admitted that his force is being overwhelmed by violent crime and cannot cope steve green the chief constable of nottinghamshire said that among his principal causes of crisis were government reforms that compelled him to use officers for clerical tasks instead of frontline duties steve green says we are in a crisis situation the situation was so bad that he was preparing to farm out murder investigations to other police forces because his own detectives did not have the time to tackle them nottingham has been one of the worst affected areas for gun crime which hit record levels across england and wales last year mr green said ministers have a fixation on keeping up numbers but had in fact been responsible for policies that had taken police away from frontline duties to do jobs that should be carried out by our civilian staff such as writing home office reports we are reeling with the murders he said we are in a long-standing crisis situation with major crime and it won’t go away overnight having police doing back-office jobs is one of the factors hampering us i want to increase the number of operational cops by reducing the numbers doing back office jobs it’s frustrating to know that i can make better use of the money i’ve got but i’m constrained from doing it because office numbers is a political football all parties have the same fixation mr green said he was prevented from putting more police onto frontline duties because if he reduced the number of officers doing clerical work he would lose a large amount of his fundings from the crime fighting fund a labour measure that gives extra money to forces that keeps officer numbers high our accountant has said that if there was a way out of it he would tell me mr green whose comments will increase pressure on the government over its law odor order policies said his force was heavily in debt he regularly had to borrow detectives from other constabularies to tackle a spat of large drug-related murders we are now routinely going into foreign forces to get additional officers one option they were on the verge of adopting was to farm an entire murder inquiry to another force i’m not aware of any other force having having to do such a thing he said nottingham’s crisis has been prompted to a sharp rise in a number of murders and other violent crimes since 2001 the force has had to investigate 21 category a murders foes classed as being high profile with no immediate suspect before 2000 it was dealing with one category a murder every 12 to 18 months on average its officers are currently running 30 murder investigations nottinghamshire residents are also three times more likely than the national average to have their car broken into four times as likely to be burgled and five times is more likely to be robbed and twice as likely to suffer a sexual attack nottinghamshire was also among the bottom four underperforming forces in official figures mr green’s decision to speak out follows another fatal shooting last week paul thomas who was 34 had left the pub in radford nottingham when he was gunned down just after 4 30 p.m on thursday firearm offenses in england and wales rose to a high of 24 094 with levels in nottingham the fifth highest head per population after london manchester liverpool and the west midlands the association of chief police officers said that other forces were experiencing similar pressures to nottinghamshire because of the need for officers to carry out bureaucratic tasks that should be done by civilians we’ve been raising it with the government for some months said a spokesperson there is a fixation with police numbers and an inflexibility over budgets which is not producing effective policing we can recruit officers but not necessarily civilian staff david davis the shadow home secretary said mr green’s predicament was an example of the government’s ring fencing of money together with the forces being swamped with bureaucracy he said we will do away with the national policing plan that creates these targets so that those police they have can be properly used the story broke as the general election campaign was about to get underway and crime was on top of the agenda shadow home secretary david davis wasted no time in wadding into the debate privately he was critical of mr green but publicly he said the comments showed how chief constables hands were being tied up by red tape across the country by a home office which was not funding them adequately the daily newspapers were champing at the bit to follow up the sunday telegraph story for a chief constable to be so clearly unable to cope and speak about it publicly was almost unheard of mr green was in the soup as far as the home office was concerned but he would find support from the media and fellow chief constables over his stance rather than criticism only bones who knew what was really going on inside the force knew that many of the problems were linked to his handling of the resources at his disposal nevertheless he realized his job could be under threat and his press officer margaret kerr began to brief journalists that mr green had been blackmailed into agreeing into the interview it was an extraordinary claim to me effectively alleging that the reporters had forced him to tell the truth by committing a criminal offense we weren’t the only ones who were angry her majesty’s inspectorate of policing was fuming the comments from the chief constable about his force being in crisis had come only a few weeks after dennis o’connor a senior hmic inspector had given the force a clean bill of health sir ronnie flanagan chief inspector of hmic soon had the home secretary charles clark knocking on his door demanding answers downing street entered the fray too with tony blair’s official spokesman making a veiled criticism of mr green’s leadership everyone recognizes there are problems in nottinghamshire but there are different views about the cause of these problems the spokesman told the reporters home secretary clark demanded an urgent investigation into mr green’s claims which would be carried out by hmic and within a couple of days hmrc investigators contacted the sunday telegraph’s editor dominic lawson to see whether they could get access to the tape recorded interview he was happy to oblige but said hmic would have to make a formal request by letter otherwise mr lawson argued it could be set as a president for handing over privileged material to a third party in the end hmic did not follow up with his informal letter of request meanwhile mp graham allen lodged a complaint against mr green to the ipcc i believe he has been guilty of serious misjudgment not just in giving the interview but in his original decision to take beat officers off the streets of nottingham mr allen told the observer newspaper mr green perhaps sensing his job was in jeopardy told reporters who by this time were hoping for an all-out war between achieve constable and the home office that the interview was a big mistake for whatever reasons i gave the interview i must concede that the interview itself was not my finest hour reset with hindsight i was wrong to accept the word crisis during the interview but nevertheless investigating murders is a major challenge to us marian bates widower victor pulled no punches nottingham has always been as lawless as it has been under this chief constable the man is a menace to law and order he told reporters the way the criminals in nottingham have been allowed to flourish under his regime is ridiculous it’s frightening there are less police officers on the street and we now have a community warden who has no power it must have cost the lives of over 15 people over the last two years including my wife the criminals have been encouraged by a system that prevails crime is now a lively occupation because the chances of being caught are so little later mr green who would eventually leave nottinghamshire police in june 2008 was critical of victor bate’s stance claiming that he was being led by others with an agenda of their own i have listened to what victor bates has said and he is perfectly entitled to his opinion he told nottingham evening post i have no problem with victor i respect he’s been through too much it’s for people who have been advising him that are beneath the content their actions have meant that the opportunity mr bates had to exercise the power he had to do good was wasted steve green also claimed he had fallen into a trap because his mind was preoccupied with the arrest of colin good i tried to give the journalists honest answers as i always do but i do not get paid to fall into elephant trap i recognize i fell into that one all i can say is my attention was focused on the operational matters and i just didn’t see it coming on the day i did that interview colin gunn was arrested for the sterling’s murder we should have been in celebration mode instead we were fighting off that as best we could however mr green’s memory was faulty in fact colin gunn was not arrested until thursday the 17th of march 2005 almost a week after the interview was carried out nottinghamshire officers picked him up and they started driving out on the a52 and passed into lincolnshire mr gum was surprised where are we going he asked just a trip to the seaside colin replied an officer why are you missing nottingham already colin was interviewed at skegness police station by lincolnshire detectives i had no direct or indirect involvement with the murders he claimed john sterling was known to me as he used to drink with me and my friends i’ve never had any bad feelings towards john or joan sterling it was of course a blatant life by now the drains at his bungalow in revelstoke way were severely blocked with phones and sim cards and other evidential debris a plumber would be called out some two and a half years later because of the damp patches inside the three-bedroom property he just built over the block drain to solve the problem who knows what secrets are held on the phones but to the knowledge of the reporters they remain where they are to this day

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